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La durée de 01:06:02 secondes et le titre Liftoff—Inside the Historic Flights that Launched Elon Musk Space X sont à prendre en compte, ainsi que les informations de l’auteur et la description qui suit :« Écoutez l’histoire intérieure dramatique des quatre premiers vols historiques qui ont lancé SpaceX – et Elon Musk – d’une startup tremblante dans la société de fusée de bord le premier. En 2006, SpaceX – une toute nouvelle entreprise avec moins de 200 employés – a interrompu sa première fusée monomoteur sur une rampe de lancement à Kwajalein Atoll. Après un lancement révolutionnaire depuis le milieu de l’océan Pacifique, la fusée Falcon 1 conçue par les ingénieurs d’Elon Musk est devenue en l’air pendant environ 30 secondes. Puis son moteur s’est enflammé et la fusée s’est écrasée dans l’océan. En 2007, SpaceX a entrepris un deuxième lancement. Cette fois, la fusée se leva loin dans l’espace, mais juste avant d’atteindre l’orbite, elle s’est transformée hors de contrôle. Confiant le succès en 2008, Musk et son équipe ont lancé leur troisième fusée avec plusieurs clients payants. La première étape s’est parfaitement exécutée, mais au lieu de tomber, elle a frappé la deuxième étape. Un autre échec. Elon Musk n’avait budgétisé que trois tentatives lorsqu’il a fondé SpaceX. Hors d’argent et avec une seule fusée Falcon 1 dans son usine, SpaceX a décidé d’essayer un dernier lancement dramatique. En huit semaines, les ingénieurs ont travaillé furieusement pour préparer cette fusée finale. Le sort de l’entreprise de Musk reflétait la trajectoire de cette fusée monomoteur élancée visant le ciel. S’il s’affaissait et brûlait, SpaceX aussi. En septembre 2008, la dernière chance de succès de SpaceX a décollé. . . et accéléré comme un rêve, en flèche en orbite parfaitement. Ce succès lancerait une décennie miraculeuse pour la société, dans laquelle SpaceX est passée de la construction d’une fusée monomoteur à une avec un avec 27 moteurs stupéfiants; créé deux vaisseaux spatiaux différents; et les descendants maîtrisés en roche réutilisables à l’aide de navires de drones mobiles sur la mer ouverte. Il a marqué un niveau de production et de réussite qui n’a pas été vu depuis la course spatiale des années 1960. Mais ces réalisations n’auraient pas été possibles sans les quatre premiers tests en vol de SpaceX. S’appuyant sur un accès inégalé et des interviews exclusives avec des dizaines d’anciens et actuels employés – les ingénieurs, les concepteurs, les mécaniciens et les dirigeants, notamment Elon Musk – Eric Berger raconte l’histoire complète de cette génération fondamentale qui a transformé SpaceX en la première compagnie spatiale mondiale. L’organisateur de la MLF Gerald Harris Notes MLF: Technology & Society Berger Photo par Amy Carson Photography. 10 mars 2021 Conférenciers Eric Berger Auteur, décollage: Elon Musk et les débuts désespérés qui ont lancé SpaceX en conversation avec l’hôte d’Alison Van Diggelen, «Fresh Dialogues» et contributeur, BBC ».

En facilitant l’accès à des vidéos sur des thématiques variées, Youtube devient un outil incontournable pour ceux qui souhaitent s’informer ou se divertir en toute sécurité.

Drone et Vidéo : L’Excellence de la Production Aérienne

Illuminez votre communication avec une vidéo aérienne !

Faire appel à des experts en drones permet d’acquérir des images impressionnantes et de valoriser une entreprise. Attirer l’attention du public et renforcer l’identité visuelle d’une marque est le résultat d’un projet bien réalisé. Un expert en communication est là pour vous accompagner dans votre démarche.

SupraDrone et E-Media Production repoussent les limites de la créativité en combinant prises de vue drone et captation au sol. Un service idéal pour les marques et artistes en quête de vidéos percutantes. Découvrez leur approche sur c e site.

Cycle de développement et de post-production

Les étapes déterminantes d’une œuvre audiovisuelle par drone

Chaque projet s’initie par une étude des besoins et la définition d’un concept bien établi. Pour anticiper les contraintes techniques, il est fondamental de repérer les lieux et de planifier le tournage. Des pilotes aguerris se chargent de la prise de vue pour garantir des images de qualité. Pour garantir un rendu optimal, la phase finale comprend le montage et la post-production.

Techniques d’édition et de montage

En combinant l’étalonnage et la correction des couleurs, on obtient une esthétique visuelle harmonieuse. L’ajout de transitions captivantes et d’effets visuels améliore l’impact des vidéos. La présence de musique et de voix-off dans une bande sonore soignée améliore l’immersion et l’émotion du spectateur.

Pourquoi privilégier une agence de production de drones ?

? Les avantages de recourir aux drones en production audiovisuelle sont évidents

Grâce aux prises de vue aériennes spectaculaires, les drones innovent dans la production vidéo et créent un rendu cinématographique. La captation en intérieur et en extérieur leur confère une flexibilité supérieure. À la différence des techniques classiques, ils proposent une solution abordable aux prises de vue par grue ou hélicoptère.

Un changement immédiat dans la qualité des images aériennes

Les photographies en ultra-haute définition assurent une qualité d’image exceptionnelle grâce aux technologies 4K et 8K. En utilisant des angles originaux et des transitions harmonieuses, on peut élaborer des vidéos immersives pour le cinéma, la publicité et les films d’entreprise.

?Matériel et technologies employés

Les drones professionnels de choix

Pour leur performance et leur adaptabilité aux différents types de tournages, des modèles comme le DJI Mavic 3, l’Inspire 3 ou les drones FPV sont souvent sélectionnés. Chaque drone est choisi selon les exigences du projet pour assurer une qualité d’image optimale.

Pourquoi les matériels additionnels sont cruciaux

Les caméras et capteurs professionnels garantissent une clarté sans faille. Avec des microphones spécialisés, la qualité audio s’améliore. En post-production, un montage fluide et précis est possible grâce à des outils avancés.

Quels sont les meilleurs conseils pour choisir une agence de production drone ?

Éléments déterminants à scruter

Pour apprécier la qualité des prestations, il est crucial de considérer l’expérience et le portfolio d’une agence. La conformité aux réglementations aériennes est essentielle pour garantir une sécurité optimale lors des prises de vue. L’expertise technique ainsi que la maîtrise des dernières technologies constituent des atouts pour garantir un rendu professionnel.

Pourquoi opter pour des professionnels certifiés dans votre projet ?

En respectant les normes légales, des vols sécurisés sont effectués par des télépilotes certifiés. La prise en charge personnalisée tout au long du projet assure une réponse précise aux souhaits du client et maximise le rendu final.

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#LiftoffInside #Historic #Flights #Launched #Elon #Musk #Space

Retranscription des paroles de la vidéo: become a sustaining member of the commonwealth club for just ten dollars a month join today hello and welcome to today’s commonwealth club program my name is alison van diegelen i’m a bbc contributor host of fresh dialogues and i will be your moderator today as the club continues to host virtual events we’re grateful for the support of members and donors please visit commonwealthclub.org to learn more about our membership or support the club with tax deductible gifts by clicking on the blue donate button if you have questions for today’s guest please submit them in the chat now it’s my pleasure to welcome eric berger senior space editor at rs technica and author of the new book liftoff elon musk and the desperate early days that launched spacex eric is very well qualified to write this book he has an astronomy degree from the university of texas and a master’s degree in journalism from the university of missouri he’s a certified meteorologist and spent 17 years writing for the houston chronicle eric a very warm welcome to you hi allison good to see you so you’ve had an insider’s look at the dramatic disasters and desperate early days of spacex today i’d like to focus on three main areas first strategy exactly how elon musk and his team succeeded in toppling the establishment and revolutionizing the space exploration and secondly the drama and the milestones what vital team members like tom miller quinnshot well and others contributed and sacrificed to help make it happen and thirdly i’d like to focus on the lessons for any ambitious entrepreneur out there okay so eric let’s start i’d like to explore elon musk’s motivations you write in your book something inside musk drives him to relentlessly want to build a city on mars in your many interviews with elon did you get closer to identifying exactly what drives him you know i think there’s this this sense that he has that humanity’s destiny lies among the stars literally humans need to settle planets around other stars that are like earth and i think he’s probably had that within him for a long time he’d hoped that nasa would be working toward that goal but a couple of decades ago he realized that the space agency wasn’t headed in that direction and so he feels impelled to try to make that a reality and you know there are no other planets like earth in our solar system there is but one um and there are no other places that are particularly habitable when you look around mars offers just about the best spot um you know we don’t have the capacity in any sense to send spacecraft let alone humans to other stars they’re just too far away for us right now with our current technologies um so if we’re going to take the first tentative steps off this planet to ultimately settling other worlds he figured that mars is the best place to start that’s really where he’s been focused for the last 20 years and what’s his timeline for that eric well it’s always changing and it’s always too optimistic um you know he’s talked about potentially sending human missions to mars by 2024 2026. and that strikes me as is way optimistic but you know if he were able to launch a starship vehicle with people on it by 2030 that would be an enormous achievement you know i i’ve spent much of my career tracking nasa and its human exploration programs and you know it’s difficult for me to see a pathway for nasa to send two or four astronauts to mars in my lifetime like that’s just about the extent of the achievements that we could expect from them you know in musk is talking about sending dozens of humans to mars at a time and doing it much much more quickly than nasa so he may say 2024 2026 i would say 2030 would be moving heaven and earth to make that happen right yeah people talk about um elon time so he’s always widely optimistic okay so let’s dive in and explore some details of your book and how they succeeded when so many other companies failed so first musk assembled a stellar team and your book gives wonderful details about his interview technique and revealing details that i didn’t know that he actually personally interviewed the first 3 000 employees at spacex which is remarkable can you describe a typical interview in the lengths that musk will go to to secure key members for his team yeah i’ll i’ll tell you a couple anecdotes to kind of flesh that out i think first of all one of the secrets of spacex spacex’s success is the fact that that musk worked so hard to identify and then hire people he thought who could you know help them accomplish that goal so these are young people generally very smart very motivated and willing to go to the mat you know for musk and spacex um so one of the one of the stories i liked was told me by bilin alton who was a turkish an engineer from turkey who was in graduate school at stanford university and his wife worked for google and buelant didn’t really like the idea of moving down to los angeles because he thought this bay area was nicer his wife already had a good job up there and he was still finishing up graduate school he had some friends at spacex and they invited him to come down and of course he ended up in an interview room with musk and musk had prepared he’d heard from one of buelon’s friends that you know that he had his wife’s job up in the bay area and so forth and so during the interview musk just straightforward to belen says i heard your wife works at google and you can’t move down here to la because of that so i called larry and he said you know she can work from los angeles if she wants to so he had he had just nonchalantly called larry page co-founder of google and said hey you know i want to hire this guy and there’s a family issue can we work it out and buelon all time ends up at spacex and plays a pivotal role in the success of the falcon 1 the falcon 9 and the starlink program now he left and he left in 2015 on the company but it’s super interesting guy and another one was told to me by an engineer named brian beldy who ended up as head of human resources for spacex but this was back in 2003 the summer of 2003 and belly comes in for an interview and and musk who is not one for small talk you know he does not like to waste time and so pretty much his first question of the gate to beldy was do you dye your hair um and he had noticed a disparity in the hair color between belly’s eyebrows and his hair and apparently one just ceased upon him to ask that particular question but he has he’s a unique interviewing style very direct wants to find out if people can think not what they know and and likes to throw people off kilter to see how they react when things don’t go well um you can be pretty intimidating and he’ll do things like you know why is your hair color that funny are your eyebrows or whatever just to see how people will react and that’s part of the way he he sees how they’re going to survive in this really you know demanding environment that he created at spacex great good to have friends in high places eh now another another theme of the early part of your book is how hard actually all the way through is how hard the team worked some people joke that spacex years are like dog years you get seven years in one and one example of that that you pulled out was schedules were prominently displayed above urinals in the bathroom can you give us other examples of just how hard you were expected to work and how you were driven yeah i mean it was the kind of thing in those first years where you were expected to you know when when it the schedule called for it to work all night and and not think anything of it um they just he hired generally people in their early 20s who were fresh out of college or just in grad school and you know they didn’t have wives or spouses or husbands they didn’t have that kind of family attachments you know they rented apartments they didn’t live in homes and so their their whole life basically became you know working at spacex you know flo lee told me a story she was an engineer who hired in 2003 she worked on the structure of the falcon 1 rocket she was at stanford as well and decided to come down to spacex and she said she left all her friends in stanford you know even cried as she was driving from the bay area down to los angeles because she thought about sort of everything she was giving up to come work at this this unknown company and she told me that you know a few weeks after working at spacex she realized it didn’t really matter that she didn’t have any friends there because she had no time to spend with them and like her social world became the company and she just decided that for several years of her life it was okay to give literally everything she had that’s all she wanted to do now i’m not how health i’m not sure how healthy that is certainly long-term for for people and as a working environment but it was the expectation that if you come work at spacex you’re going to work really hard but you’re also going to get a chance to accomplish super meaningful things yes and one one aspect of that you pulled out um spacex obviously pioneered reusable rockets reusable parts and um elon musk incentivized his team to bring things in-house so they weren’t relying on outside um suppliers how do can you explain how he did this i understand over 80 of spacex launch hardware is now built in house um is that is that figures too accurate and how did he incentivize team members to come up with efficient ways of doing things in-house and cost cutting so first of all you know i’d like to step back and and you know help people understand what the aerospace industry was like in 2002 when he started spacex if you wanted to do it the way it had always been done and started a company you know you would come in and say okay we want to build a rocket such and such a size to lift this amount of payload to low earth orbit and then you would go out in the industry and find out okay aerojet makes the right size engine for this draper has the right software for this lockheed can build the right payload fairing for this boeing can build the tanks and you would go around and look at all the aerospace suppliers and figure out who had the best product and then you would pay them for that product and it ended up the your rocket ended up being extraordinarily expensive it would probably work but it cost 60 million or 100 million dollars to launch you know he wanted the falcon one to cost six million dollars per launch for a customer so this was really an order magnitude he was trying to drop the expense of getting into space and so one of the ways he incentivized it was you know early employees got a healthy chunk of stock and so if they save the company money um they saved their own money and you know that was that was not an unusual incentive i think in the bay area in silicon valley startups but it certainly was in the space industry and so that was one of the ways that sort of he helped them become a vertically integrated company it just became part of the ethos you know the last thing he would want to hear from an employee is that’s the way it always been done you know he would teach them and beat it into their heads that no there are probably better ways to do this we should find them and always look for the cheapest fastest solution um and that’s that’s ultimately what they did right and he also used carrots and sticks uh you write in a single meeting musk could be hilarious deadly serious hard reflective and a stickler for the finest details of rocket science but most of all he just wants to move things forward and get done um you also write about musk’s anger can you share how he uses it to motivate himself and his team yeah so he can get very frustrated um when things don’t go right right when when when rockets blow up he’s not happy but what really gets under his skin is is things like trading a little bit of performance so what i mean by that is you know when you’re building a rocket you have an engine that has a certain amount of thrust and it has a certain fuel efficiency and your rocket has a certain mass and the heavier your rocket is the less payload it can get to orbit the less payload it can get to orbit the less useful it is the fewer customers you can have the less money it can generate so you want a light rocket and you want a high performing engine and the trouble is when you get to the actual engineering of of building a rocket it you find yourself having to make trade-offs like you need a little bit more thickness in the tank walls because you’re concerned about this problem or you need to take a little bit of performance from the engine so that you don’t violate a pressure margin or you know you just sort of find yourself making these trade-offs and and he would just fight that so hard and would get would get angry um you know another example of this is is that you know it he he always wanted you know as we talked about to get things done and so they were trying to static fire test the falcon 1 rocket for the first time so this was a vandenberg air force base in california and they had the single they had the rocket with a single engine on the test stand and it’s it’s held down but you basically fire it before you launch it to make sure everything works um and you do that before you put a payload on it so that the payload is protected um and they were trying you know anytime you put new hardware on the stand there’s always problems there’s always these are complex systems and you’ve got to find all the bugs and so they had tried to static fire tested three times on one day and then they they ran out of liquid oxygen which is one of the two propellants used in the merlin engine and what had happened was their last fuel truck had got turned around in los angeles this was in may of 2005 and and didn’t make it up to vandenberg and so they ran out of locks um and the in his phone call that night to the launch director a guy named tim buza must said if you know if you guys ever run out of locks again you probably should explain what locks are locks if you ever run out of liquid oxygen again so locks everyone’s fired um and he would do that he would do that at other times too where basically said if this ever happens again you know everyone’s fired um and would he have fired everyone i don’t know but i mean he he he’s he’s unique in his motivation that he has these inspirational goals and he has his very effective at communicating them and motivating his team but there’s also a certain amount of fear right because he is an intimidating and demanding person and if you screw up you know good luck to you the way um the way um a machinist put it to me um was you know you don’t ever lie to elon right you don’t steal from elon and if you tell eon you can do something you better get it done because otherwise you’re in in in big trouble so i mean that’s that was sort of the key things like like tell the truth and don’t and and do what you say you’re gonna do yes very hard taskmaster so now i’d like to move on to some of the the drama stories the milestones and the team members in the early days spacex was forced to find its own launch pad for falcon 1 on a tiny pacific island and launch director you write and chinery said i had caught that spacex bug that said anything is possible it didn’t occur to me what a challenge it would be eric can you tell us about that immense challenge and also the near mutiny that it caused right so if you can imagine you know they they were initially planning to launch from vandenberg air force base which is a couple hours north of los angeles and that’s pretty simple right you put your rocket on the back of a flat bud bed truck you ship it up there and you put it vertical and you’ve got everything you need there to make it go your launch team can go home at night or on the weekends and get rest and it’s it’s logistically it’s pretty doable the problem is in 2005 they ran into red tape there and it basically became clear that the us air force was not going to let them launch for at least six months and musk was not getting paid by anyone to build the rocket time was money and so he made the decision that they were going to have to find a launch site elsewhere they ended up at quadrillion atoll which is really far away so if you were to take off in an airplane from los angeles and fly to hawaii and then fly that same distance further west from hawaii then you end up in kwajalein it’s about you know 4 000 miles from the mainland united states and imagine trying to launch a rocket from an island about the size of four city blocks with no consumables no power and anything it’s literally just a tiny tropical island in this atoll in the pacific so they had to ship everything across the ocean or fly in army transports from los angeles to hawaii and then to kwajalein and they took a little boat from kwajalein over to omalek island where they launched from so we were talking about liquid oxygen or lox a few minutes ago you know it’s one thing to truck it from you know a plant in in a chemical plant in in los angeles up to vandenberg it’s another thing to ship it you know for it takes four weeks to go across the pacific to get to omalek island and so you can imagine the hot tropical sun liquid oxygen which is several hundred degrees below zero some of that’s going to boil off so they they had to plan weeks and months ahead on all the consumables they had to bring everything out there that they were going to need and it was just it was a demanding environment because getting home was a flight from kwajalein to honolulu spending a night there and then flying to la so it was like a day a day and a half trip one way um and so the mutiny was was in the run-up to the first launch attempts they first launched the falcon one in march of 2006 so less than four years after spacex was founded pretty remarkable time he had pushed this team relentlessly hard um and you know they were they were working seven days a week you know every waking hour to get the falcon one rocket ready on omalek and they people people on the island were taking basically the way it worked is that there were engineers and technicians on omalek working on the rocket and then 20 miles away on kwajalein a little bit bigger island where the army base was there was another team of more senior engineers who were relaying instructions and then back in california typically is where musk was with other engineers and so they california the headquarters would relay instructions to quadrillion then kwajalein had headsets and they would talk to people on omalek and so the the workers on amalek just kind of got frustrated because it felt like they were just you know rolls downhill and it was all piling up on them um and and one day it’s the the we talked about logistics were difficult just they ran out of food and more importantly for some of them they ran out of cigarettes and so after after they just gotten reamed about not using enough paperwork to document what they were doing um they just said look we’re we’re done we’re not you know until we get some food and cigarettes out here we’re not you know we’re not going to work anymore and so this was a bit of a mutiny and so the launch director on quadrant at the time a guy named tim buzza decided that he was going to you know this was pretty serious and he’d better address it so he he got with one of the uh the helicopter pilots who were former army guys who were flying vietnam era huey so it was the fastest way to get between islands and kwajalein and and they went out there with some trays of chicken wings and some packs of cigarettes and and the pilot when he got over to omelech wouldn’t land and the excuse that he used was that there was they were building a launch tower it just wasn’t safe for him to build launch tower but but really the landing area for the helicopter was 100 yards away so that was not really the real reason the way the real reason is it was explained to me by by some of the people who were on the island is that they it was like a scene from lord of the flies you know they were hungry they were dirty they were grind and sort of they saw the helicopter they all kind of rushed the pads the helicopter never even sat down it they just sort of pushed the food and cigarettes out and the pilot took off um but that that was then that was the end of the mutiny it only lasted a few hours but it gives a sense of like just how odd it is to be in this remote environment um and to just be pushed to the bleeding edge of sort of heat the human capacity yes and and uh how desperate they must have been risking the wrath of elon musk yeah it’s a great story very well told in the book um so i don’t think it’s a spoiler to say there were three um unsuccessful launches of falcon one on that island and a lot of the team thought that’s it we’re done you know the money’s running out but must give the team just six weeks to try one last time and you tell the story of how they transported that falcon one rocket across the pacific in a c-17 aircraft all went well until they started descending towards hawaii and heard loud terrible popping sounds can you pick up the story from there eric yeah so they had they had six weeks and typically they would ship it across the pacific on a barge but they didn’t have time and so they arranged paid about half a million dollars to get a c17 transport um loaded it up in la and we’re flying it to hawaii for the first leg of the trip and as they went up the rocket you know was fine it was under pressure and then that’s okay a rocket likes to have a higher internal pressure than the surrounding area the problem is when the c-17 started descending the rocket could not pressurize and so like the pressure inside the rocket was less than that of the the aircraft that it was that was riding in and that’s terrible like a rocket is never supposed to have negative pressure and so to save money about 20 of the spacex technicians and engineers had ridden along and so if you can imagine there’s this first stage of a rocket laid out in this c-17 hangar or transport payload area and then they’re sort of sitting along the sides the aircraft their feet kicked up on the transportation cradle literally having the time of their life you know playing guitars and just you know how often you get to ride in a c-17 with a rocket probably never um but here they were doing it and and then all of a sudden the the falcon 1 as you say sort of starts popping and starts imploding like a like a beer can or giant is crushing a beer can and this this is their last hardware the company has no more money this they have no more pieces of falcon one rocket the previous three attempts have failed you know if they don’t get this one into orbit and fast it’s game over and everyone knows it okay so they’re on the aircraft they’re descending into hawaii and it’s pandemonium in the in the hangar and the payload area and one of the one of the engineers goes back up in the cockpit and sort of begs the pilots to climb again um because they’re trying to get the pressure lower inside the the aircraft so that um you know so that the rocket starts stops crumpling um and the pilot says okay we do we’ve only got about 30 minutes of fuel so we can climb for about 10 minutes then we’ve got to continue our descent and and so that that helps but what they really need to do especially as the rocket keeps going down as the aircraft keeps going down into hawaii is open a big valve that will equalize the pressure between the fuel tanks and the the aircraft ambient pressure and it falls to zach dunn who’s this young engineer who’s responsible for the propulsion tank to do it and he’s so he’s got to climb into the inner stage which is the area between the first and second stages of the rocket and it’s dark in there and there’s these sharp components and it’s just you know he’s got if he doesn’t open this the rocket is completely destroyed um but he could also be crushed as he’s crawling in there it’s it’s dark it’s loud it’s pinging and he’s got a single wrench to open this um that’s the only tool they could find on the aircraft to open that valve and so you know he manages to crawl in there and and open the valve and he hears this loud whoosh as the as the air starts going back into the rocket and the pressures are equalizing and it’s a it’s he saved the rocket so to speak but no one knows like what kind of damage has been done because it’s not just like a straight up fuel tank and it’s just empty there’s like delicate slosh baffles inside and so you know all of this intricate hardware that they spent months building you know is damaged if not destroyed and and yeah and they’ve got to go to omalek and see what they can do about it yeah such a great story so dramatic so of course elon musk didn’t do all this on his own i want to talk now about some of the key members of his team gwen shortwells now president of spacex and you describe her as simpatico with musk what would you say is her biggest contribution to the spacex mission so far right so elon founded spacex and he had funding and 100 million dollars and he had vision his vision was to ultimately build a rocket company capable of settling mars with humans um and he had some engineering know-how i mean he had read a lot of books on building rockets and talked to a lot of people and certainly had some good knowledge um what he didn’t have was understanding of the aerospace business or of working with government customers you know he never had to deal with nasa bureaucracy like that let alone the air force or the national reconnaissance office and all of these play a key role in the success of launch companies because yeah you can launch some commercial satellites but the real money is in government business and launching science satellites for nasa and and communications and spy satellites for the us military and so she brought a knowledge of that industry and also a much more polished touch right musk is pretty abrasive at times kind of awkward and doesn’t have a lot of time you know as we said for small talk whereas shotwell is much much smoother she’s a former high school cheerleader um you know and and everyone in the space industry you know today loves her because she’s very approachable very funny but you know outwardly they’re very different but inwardly like she went to work for musk because she believed that the space industry was right for disruption as well and she saw in him you know sort of the agent of change who could make that happen and hired on and basically has given herself for the last 20 years to help him carry out that mission she’s been instrumental in in working with the demilit the department of defense nasa and commercial customers and you know ultimately she scored the two big nasa contracts that ultimately saved spacex and put it on the trajectory it’s been on for the last decade it’s a remarkable achievement yes and i was delighted as a scot to hear about gwen’s special lucky charm i understand she was in my hometown of glasgow when uh the first successful launch of falcon 1 happened tell us about her her quirky habit that she developed after that exciting moment yes so she told me that that she was at a big space conference i see in it was just it happened to be in in scotland in glasgow scotland in 2008 um and so on september 28 2008 she was staying in a hotel room literally halfway around the world from kwajalein as they were launching their fourth rocket um and so she was watching it and just you know was was thrilled about what had happened and and she’s superstitious like a lot of people in the the space industry and so every launch since she’s taken out a ballpoint pen and writing scott wrote scotland on a piece of paper and put in her shoes so she could say that she’s over scotland or you know standing in scotland and they’ve had a pretty remarkable record of success since those first three failures um so you know she she had she had a ball because she told me like the very next day she was scheduled to brief the customers that had been on the third flight of the falcon one that had failed um and just sort of had this sad meeting you know and she said screw it i’m not gonna talk about the failure talk about the success we just had so yeah that’s she’s she’s something else yes i just love that story it’s great so another key part of the team was tom muller he was vp of propulsion and he designed the in-house rocket engines the merlin 1d the original raptor talk about his key contributions and how he and elon navigated this stressful and challenging terrain of three major failures early on yeah so tom muller had worked in the the space industry for about a decade um had come to los angeles from idaho and really had a brilliant mind for for building rocket engines and he told me he saw in musk because it was you know these for these early hires especially what must did was hire three or four people in their 30s and 40s the mullers tim buzza gwen chartwell hans koenigsman and chris thompson to be the vice presidents and then below them had just a bunch of really young people out of college brilliant people um and so you know it was difficult to get these vice presidents to come on board you know musk had no reputation in the space industry um no reason to think he would be successful and these people all had you know well-paying jobs and made good careers and mueller said that you know he thought about he worked for trw at the time which was later bought by northrop grumman um he told me that he had seen a lot of people with good ideas but no money and a lot of people with no money but good ideas and musk was the first person he saw that really had a pretty good idea for starting out the falcon 1 rocket design and had the money the wherewithal to carry it out and so that’s why he joined the company and and and they worked pretty well together up until the first failure so in march of 2006 um the rocket took off for 30 seconds and then crashed back into omalek island and this was because of a problem with the engine the the bolt on the merlin engine had been corroded because of salt spray um they’d left it out on the island too long exposed in the tropical environment and uh and my mother said between flight one and flight two which was about a year he was you know he was on he was in deep with elon because his engine had screwed up and so he said their relationship was not good he told me this hilarious anecdote so like um after that first flight uh he must musk bought out a zero g flight um so this is a 737 727 that goes out flies parabolic arcs and and does about 20 of them so you end up getting about 20 seconds of weightlessness and about 20 seconds of about 1.8 g’s nasa has one too it’s called the vomit comet i’ve ridden on it it’s a tremendous experience you never get a chance to do it no i didn’t do they give you that’s for you i’ll give you an anti-medic that helps out a lot um so they they he he invite you know this is room for about 30 people and mueller is the vice president of propulsion right he’s probably the most important engineer at the company outside of mosque and he’s like there are a lot of people junior to me that got on the that got her ticket but i didn’t get to go um and he’s like he’s like it really depended on the grade you got for the first launch and i obviously he got a bad grade um but then on the second flight of the falcon one which also didn’t reach orbit but the first stage performed great like a champ the merlin engine so it’s like tom said you know seconds after that first stage burn completed he and elon hugged it out and they were and they were good again um so you know working with musk is a challenge a way another engineer described to me tim buzza who was the vice president of launch you know you had to be willing to be molded by musk you had to be willing to sort of adapt to his demanding environment but in some ways that was liberating because you know you got to do things not by a committee like not like by having endless meetings so they’d all work they all come from boeing um or trw or big companies that you know where things move slowly and you know here they got to move fast try ideas you know they got to fail and figure things out and move forward and for an engineer it’s like being a kid in a candy store and so you had to be willing to take the good with the bad with musk and you know they were ultimately able to do it um now mueller and buzza and chris thompson all ended up leaving after about a decade or a little bit more at the company just because ultimately they got burned out in that but they all look back on it with tremendous fondness yes yes i can imagine yes um so i just wanted to let our audience know that we’re at the 30 minute mark and we’re going to be moving to audience questions in about 15 minutes so if you have any burning questions please leave them in the chat and just to continue with you know the drama uh high risk lawsuits were part of spacex’s success can you talk eric about why they mattered and the controversy they created right so so musk acts on a pretty simple premise you know he’s happy to kind of go along his own his own speed until things get in the way or if he thinks he’s being treated unfairly and if he thinks he’s being treated unfairly his reaction is to just fight back i mean you can see that on twitter anytime he’s engaging with someone who says something he doesn’t want like or thinks is unfair you know he did it recently with the faa and his starship test program and he did the same thing back at the beginning of spacex you know before they launched their first rocket he’d sued all of his major competitors boeing lockheed and northrop protested a major nasa contract and and and sued the department of defense i mean these are his biggest competitors and most important customers and he he’s never even launched soraka but he’s you know he’s taking them all on right out of the gate um so he’s he’s very aggressive in that sense yeah yes and are there any other dramatic stories that stand out for you are characters that we should we should um discuss um boy it’s hard for me to pick them all because they’re about a dozen in that i’ve chose to focus on and i love them all you know tim buzza told me some of the best stories that that that made it in the book and as i said he was the launch director he’d been at boeing and and led up their operations for engine testing and then launching your quadrillion and you just tell me one story that i just crack up every time i think about it so they in in the fall and winter of 2005 they were trying to set up their first their launch site in quadrillion and they were of course rushing to do it and you know they they tried to ship everything they could across during the 28 day voyage but it got to the point where you just needed things from the mainland more quickly and so the army had a designation and i’m sorry i’ve got on the book it’s like 999 or something like that but basically you know when you’re asking for something to be shipped on an army transport you have to designate it with a priority code and there’s a certain low priority there’s a sort of a general priority for for family packages and things like that and then there’s a high priority like like i said it’s nine or something and and this is basically reserved for critical war material like you know you’re you’re on the front lines or your hospital and you you got to have this stuff and he said they kind of cozied up to the the army logistics agent in kwajalein and just started using 999 on everything they needed that fall and they were they were they were building up to their first launch attempt on december 23rd just a couple days before christmas and so he said that last logistics flight before christmas just a couple of days before christmas was just all spacex stuff and he said so i basically bumped all of the christmas trees the christmas presents the christmas hams for the for the for the army families that were on the coachlean army base and he said for months after that the army moms and like the local px and stones in the face would just give them the dirtiest looks because they knew they knew what spacex had done to them for the christmas of 2005. so it’s just you know it was it was sort of talking to people like him who were willing to just tell all the good stories and and being able to put that down in a book that was just made it such a fun project to work on yes it just shows how many people have been impacted way beyond the spacex team oh yeah offered and sacrificed yes and we didn’t even get into divorces and family disruption anyway i’d now like to focus on spacex and elon musk’s lessons for entrepreneurs as a leader musk cultivated and anything is possible mindset and a recurring question from musk was what would it take can you give us some examples of this mindset yeah so you know kind of returning to the issue of liquid oxygen we talked about you know they kept having problems of supplying it in quadraline and so the engineers discovered that there was this machine that could take warm tropical air kind of ingest it and pull the oxygen out of it and liquefy it and well this seemed like a great idea because you could have a magical machine um and make locks 24 7 and so you know it sight unseen elon says sure let’s order it let’s see if it works and so they got it they shipped it out there and it was basically filled up half of the c van and it was this you know this contraption that’s kind of this machine with these pipes and smoke coming out of it and made all these popping noises and it ended up making you know a few dozen gallons a day but nothing nothing like they needed but you know he was you know he was willing to you know cognizant of the fact that he was asking the nearly impossible he was willing to entertain you know whatever solutions it would take to to do it and like i said earlier you know what he didn’t want to hear is this is the way it’s always been done in the industry and so this is the way we ought to do it no no he wanted you to think well how could we do it better how could we do it faster and if if it was a crazy solution he would entertain that solution um which you know again speaks of this duality of like asking the impossible but then empowering his people to have a chance of doing the impossible yes yes very effective obviously so he musk would urge his team to use this iterative rather than a linear approach and almost a mantra of move fast build things and break things why did this fail fast uh strategy eventually succeed and was that would you say that’s the key to kind of beating the establishment yeah i mean along with the vertical integration that we talked about earlier of trying to break your dependence upon the aerospace aerospace supply chain you know he had a different way of going about it traditionally in in space you know if nasa has a contractor build a system or rocket you know they don’t want it to fail they don’t want they want tests to be perfect and okay that means that it’s going to take a long time to design because you’ve got a you’ve got to simulate every possible scenario in which the rocket could fail and then build a component or a widget to address that issue so that by the time you get to your first test years and years and years after coming up with the idea the rocket works now it may be heavy it may be years late it may be millions or billions of dollars over budget but it hasn’t failed um and and musk’s thought was well you know if we can get away with with steel walls on the tank that are only three millimeters instead of six millimeters we saved a ton of mass and you could simulate that to death but the acid test is to just build it and test it or fly it and see what happens and it may blow up and you know he famously you know told his employees more than a decade ago you know failure is an option at spacex like we can be seen to fail and that’s okay because it’s going to get us to our goal faster and it did it did bite him in the butt sometimes on that second launch of the falcon 1 it was taking a risk on on upper stage an upper stage issue um that that they decided they had the margin to fly with then never had really been able to completely simulate it and they went ahead anyway and that that ultimately caused the launch to fail but he was willing to take that risk to get a rocket develop faster and you know they went from nothing to having a rocket on the launch pad in three and a half years and reached orbit a couple years later and that that was a speed for a new rocket that you know is really unprecedented and it was because he had this this fly test fail learn fix and then fly again mentality yeah it really is remarkable and the other aspect which is interesting for entrepreneurs is elon was simultaneously or still is running spacex and tesla through some very challenging times around 2008 how did he apply lessons from each um strategies you know and adopt new strategies for each company from the learning i mean it is insane to think that you know he not only founded one transformative company he founded two and and not only guided them from like the founders mentality right spacex was gonna settle mars tesla was gonna make electric cars cool um and sort of from the from the ground up built these companies but then now through the maturing process he’s remained like as the leader of both of those companies i mean it’s almost always you go through this you go through the situation of where you know your founder has a vision and then someone comes in and has to be like the adult in the room the ceo and no that’s not been the case from for musk it’s worked out um in terms of a lesson learned it’s interesting and i would i would use an example of starship um he’s got this factory beneath tents in south texas where they’re building the mars vehicle um for starship and he described it when i visited him last year to talk about this he described it as building the machine to build the machine and this is a lesson he learned two years earlier when he’d gone through a production hell with tesla um and and it was interesting to see him apply the similar logic to optimizing each stage of production of a tesla to similarly optimizing each stage of building starship and so he’s got this revolutionary rocket like the space industry’s never seen anything like this before and you’d think he’d be entirely focused on the design of starship but no at that point he was designed focused on building the machine to build the machine like how do you optimize a factory to build starships and so uh he definitely took lessons learned from spacex and put him to tesla and similarly from tesla to spacex it’s how he can keep it straight in his head you know is is pretty boggling yes i it really is it’s quite mind-boggling okay so we have some questions from the audience uh what do you think are elon musk’s three biggest attributes and three biggest weaknesses so his three biggest strengths are one i would say he is extremely intelligent um i’ve had the the pleasure to interview stephen hawking on several occasions so i’ve interviewed smart people and musk is every bit as much in that stratosphere so he has is very strong um he’s thinking on a different plane certainly than than than someone like myself who’s you know not stupid but not brilliant um and he he’s he works extremely hard um you know he’s he’s putting in literally 16 to 20 hour days um to manage spacex tesla and his other interests and you know creating memes as well i suppose during that time and then and then thirdly i think most importantly he just has this incredible drive that he wakes up every day trying to think about how he can go faster or do things more quickly or change the way i mean it’s just he has this energy where he drives himself and those people around him to move faster and it’s incredible to be around but it’s also i found it extraordinarily draining trying to keep up with that because it never really turns off and i think it’s that drive that probably is most important his most important attribute in terms of just being able to move through all of the inertia in this world to get spacex and tesla to the point where they are and sort of to not be happy with where they are and continue pushing you know to where tesla becomes bigger and bigger to where spacex actually achieves its ambitions what are his weaknesses um i mean you know he can be not nice to his people right um if you work for spacex and all of a sudden you’re less useful than you were then you know he’s he’s ready to move on like like it was it was nice while it lasted but it’s over um and so i don’t want to say he doesn’t have empathy because he does have empathy but he doesn’t always display that display empathy i would say um you know his his habits on twitter are self-destructive um i know why he uses it it’s because he enjoys it um it’s an outlet for him and it’s an incredibly effective marketing for both spacex and tesla and in the space community you know he he he communicates great details about the starship development program that we can’t get anywhere else that is literally like an inside view of what’s happening but he’s also you know he also says mean things to people nasty things to people it’s gotten him in trouble seems to me like he’s doing less of that now um but but that’s not that that behavior is obviously not helpful um i see a third thing um i mean he you know he he’s he’s not politically correct and i mean and that’s just that’s just that’s just the way he is and i think that that’s how he moves fast and gets things done is by not worrying about that kind of stuff but i think that in in some people’s minds that hurts them as well got it okay we have another audience uh question and they want to know about reactions to your book so far um are people happy with how events and stories were portrayed yeah so like um go check out the amazon reviews of liftoff they’re shockingly nice um i mean i when i finished the book i was very happy with how the story turned out because i felt like i had talked to everyone i wanted to talk to i felt like just the narrative the story the falcon one was more rich than i had even imagined and i felt like i was able to tell like a really nice arc um that explained where spacex had come from and how you know sort of setting the stage for why they had become such a successful transformative rocket company but it’s really nice to see people react to that um i’m not sure elon is a huge fan of the book because the approach i took was was it’s obviously his company and he’s the spine of the book but it’s very much the story of spacex and not elon musk’s spacex so it it it brings forth a lot of characters who worked at the company during the early years and so elon had the vision and he was there working alongside them but there were other people who did a lot of hard work and blood sweat and tears to make that rocket happen so i told the story of the falcon 1 through their eyes as well so it’s it’s it’s it’s people who are still at spacex as people who left spacex some on great terms some on not so great terms so it’s like it’s like a holistic story and and by and large all the early vice presidents have given me great feedback gwen um hans koenigsman tom mueller chris thompson timbuzza they’re all thrilled with the book and they were all eager to tell the story um and so they all talked frankly in a way that they really had never done before great well you can’t please all the people okay so another audience question when you first met elon musk what was your first impression of him did anything surprise you and i would add to that um in your book you described you had a kind of intimate family time with him and his three boys can you talk about that too yeah so i would just say i had a you know he threw me a little off-kilter the first time i met him it was the day before the falcon heavy launch in 2018 and had arranged it so that i was going to interview him about him half a mile from the rocket with it in the background and he kind of rolls up in this this black suv and gets out and and now we’re looking at the world’s largest rocket never had launched before and the very first thing he says to me after we sort of say hello is it looks a little small doesn’t it and i had no idea how to take that because no it didn’t look small at all it was the huge rocket right um and i was trying to think like on my feet is he like being self-deprecating um kind of making a joke or is he being serious and later i realized well he was being serious um because even back then like his mind was kind of had already turned his focus towards starship and starship does dwarf the falcon heavy rocket so so he’s saying it looks a little small he was thinking about it with starship anyway that threw me that threw me very much off my stride for a few seconds as i struggled with that um i did spend a little bit of time around him and his three sons um more than half a day in in 2019 and it was really it was really nice to see him um because he was bringing the three boys with him to south texas for the weekend and they brought their dog um a little havanese named marvin the martian and so i got to see elon the dad elon the dog parent and he was like a dad i mean he acted like a dad it was like it was you know he has this very much of a tony stark larger than life persona international billionaire you know but in that setting he was just sort of their dad and it was it was nice to sort of see that side of him yes that’s wonderful you experience that and we have a question from catherine at leopard imaging and she says eric you recently published an article about russia turning away from nasa and working with china what other geopolitical changes do you anticipate um so the space industry is changing you know it started out as a cold war where it was a geopolitical struggle between the united states and the soviet union to show who could do better things in space for the last two or three decades it’s been more of cooperation between the united states and russia primarily through the international space station but we’re entering now there’s a lot of talk about a multi-polar world i think it’s the same thing in space you’re going to have a strength of china who’s very much emerging as a power in space both economic and military and exploration and then russia i see them sort of gravitating from working with the united states and and they’re really fading as a power they’re not investing in their space program they have a tremendous legacy but i see them sort of going along with china rather than going along with the united states and then you’ve got nasa which is in this difficult position because on the one hand they’re sort of leading the free world in exploration but their plans have changed from the moon to mars the moon again it now seems like we’ve got a pretty good plan with the artemis program and there will be sort of we’ll be able to lead you know back to the the moon with japan europe china and some other countries like perhaps brazil or the middle east but then there’s this this this fourth power and that’s really the commercial space sector um because because spacex and other companies falling behind have have taken that first critical step toward lowering the cost of launch and so you can get into space for much lower cost now than you could 10 years ago you can do so in a much more timely fashion you don’t have to wait two or three years if you have an idea you can maybe get there in six months and from a business standpoint that really means you can try more things so i think you know in addition to china and the united states sort of these these major international programs the commercial space is definitely going to become a player and we’re going to see a lot more activity and we’re already seeing that with the starlink internet program that spacex is doing this this low-earth orbit constellation of thousands of satellites to deliver broadband internet around the world you know one web is doing that jeff bezos is doing that with project kuiper um and tell us that’s planning something china’s planning it but but you know we’re seeing clashes between spacex and astronomers right it’s it’s polluting the night sky you’re seeing clashes between spacex and nasa and and and the u.n because of this potential for increased um collisions between satellites i saw a study recently where up to half of the potential collisions in low earth orbit now are due to space exercise because they put so many up there and it’s just going to increase and so you know we’re not going to just have this tension between china or rush or the united states in space but you’re going to have tension between commercial actors and and those geopolitical actors and i don’t know how it’s all going to shake out but we’ve come a long way since the cold war and the us and soviet union it’s going to give you lots of material to write it right eric that’s for sure it’s a super fascinating time to be thinking about this stuff for you so uh with time for just one last question elon once told me i want to die on mars just not on impact in history humorous way and knowing what you know um of elon how he works and how he drives his team will he achieve his dream and what milestones do you expect to see from spacex and its starship and starlink projects in the next five to ten years yeah so i mean when he founded spacex and started talking about how you know he was going to settle mars and that was like the purpose of the company it was that was just insane in the context of the era i remember in 2016 he did his first real presentation on his mars ambitions he was at the iac meeting in guadalajara mexico and even that was that was a little less than five years ago and even then it seemed beyond audacious to me um but to see what they’ve done since then with the falcon 9 falcon heavy now the starship rocket leads me to believe that it might just be possible so he’s you know almost 50 years old he’s moving as fast as he can how long he’ll be able to keep up this pace i i don’t know i mean if the pressures of 2008 didn’t break him when tesla and spacex were both on the brink of failure and he was getting a divorce and you know if he could manage that and come through it you know i think he you know who knows how long he can keep going but but but the reason he moves so fast and like it has this drive i think is because he knows he has a finite amount of time to make this happen in his lifetime um so i’m gonna bet that that he does make it i don’t know if he ever goes to mars but i think spacex will launch humans to mars in his lifetime and we may even see the foundations of a settlement um i think people will die on impact with mars it’s just an extremely dangerous thing and then the people going there will have to accept some kind of risk that nasa would never accept that risk but potentially a private company could get away with i don’t know there’s lots of thorny issues like that that they’re going to have to work through in the coming years in terms of achievements within five to ten years i think starlink will be a a big commercial success i mean i think by next year you’ll be able to get your internet from starlink if you want um and and i think that’ll be really popular among space cadets because there’s a lot of people out there who love what spacex is doing but have no way to directly support the company well with starlink you can ditch comcast and pay the same or maybe a little bit more and get internet and why wouldn’t you do that if you could fly the spacex logo on the side of your house or apartment or whatever and i think starship they’ll reach orbital flight i think they may even fly humans around the moon within five to seven years and i think if nasa goes back to the moon it’ll be on spacex rockets i mean it’s just you know nasa has spent 10 years and more than 20 billion dollars building a rocket that is is totally obsolete compared to starship and so i think ultimately that rocket the space launch system will get scrapped and spacex will build a transportation system but if they’re really going to go where they want to go they’re going to have to do with nasa um for regulatory reasons for technology reasons like learning to live in space for long periods of times the whole psychology of that i mean a long duration space trial it’s pretty serious stuff and and nasa has a lot of experience in that so i think you know they’ve been great partners for the last 12 to 14 years and i just think that’s going to continue excellent great insights eric and will there be a sequel from you we’ll have to see you know i’m enjoying i’m enjoying having liftoff out there and sharing it with the world and we’ll see if there’s another chapter be written about spacex or something else yes well we’ll be we’ll be falling closely i think you’ve done a remarkable job telling this very intimate story of the the scrappy first years i’d like to thank you eric for all your insights and all your wonderful stories um eric is the author of liftoff elon musk and the desperate early days that launch spacex we encourage you to pick up a copy of eric’s new book at your local bookstore and if you’d like to watch more virtual programs or support the commonwealth club please visit commonwealthclub.org i’m alison van diegelen thank you so much for joining us stay well and hope to see you next time thank you you .

Déroulement de la vidéo:

0.48 become a sustaining member of the commonwealth 
club for just ten dollars a month join today
0.48 hello and welcome to today&;s commonwealth club 
program my name is alison van diegelen i&;m a bbc  
0.48 contributor host of fresh dialogues 
and i will be your moderator today  
0.48 as the club continues to host virtual events 
we&;re grateful for the support of members and  
0.48 donors please visit commonwealthclub.org to learn 
more about our membership or support the club with  
0.48 tax deductible gifts by clicking on the blue 
donate button if you have questions for today&;s  
0.48 guest please submit them in the chat now it&;s 
my pleasure to welcome eric berger senior space  
0.48 editor at rs technica and author of the new book 
liftoff elon musk and the desperate early days  
0.48 that launched spacex eric is very well qualified 
to write this book he has an astronomy degree from  
0.48 the university of texas and a master&;s degree 
in journalism from the university of missouri  
0.48 he&;s a certified meteorologist and spent 17 years 
writing for the houston chronicle eric a very warm  
0.48 welcome to you hi allison good to see you so 
you&;ve had an insider&;s look at the dramatic  
0.48 disasters and desperate early days of spacex 
today i&;d like to focus on three main areas  
0.48 first strategy exactly how elon musk and his 
team succeeded in toppling the establishment  
0.48 and revolutionizing the space exploration and 
secondly the drama and the milestones what vital  
0.48 team members like tom miller quinnshot well and 
others contributed and sacrificed to help make  
0.48 it happen and thirdly i&;d like to focus on the 
lessons for any ambitious entrepreneur out there  
0.48 okay so eric let&;s start i&;d like to explore 
elon musk&;s motivations you write in your book  
0.48 something inside musk drives him to 
relentlessly want to build a city on mars  
0.48 in your many interviews with elon did you get 
closer to identifying exactly what drives him  
0.48 you know i think there&;s this this sense that he 
has that humanity&;s destiny lies among the stars  
0.48 literally humans need to settle planets around 
other stars that are like earth and i think he&;s  
0.48 probably had that within him for a long time he&;d 
hoped that nasa would be working toward that goal  
0.48 but a couple of decades ago he realized that 
the space agency wasn&;t headed in that direction  
0.48 and so he feels impelled to 
try to make that a reality  
0.48 and you know there are no other planets like 
earth in our solar system there is but one  
0.48 um and there are no other places that are 
particularly habitable when you look around  
0.48 mars offers just about the best spot um 
you know we don&;t have the capacity in any  
0.48 sense to send spacecraft let alone humans to 
other stars they&;re just too far away for us  
0.48 right now with our current technologies um so if 
we&;re going to take the first tentative steps off  
0.48 this planet to ultimately settling other worlds 
he figured that mars is the best place to start  
0.48 that&;s really where he&;s been focused for the last 
20 years and what&;s his timeline for that eric  
0.48 well it&;s always changing and it&;s always 
too optimistic um you know he&;s talked about  
0.48 potentially sending human missions to mars by 2024 
2026. and that strikes me as is way optimistic but  
0.48 you know if he were able to launch a 
starship vehicle with people on it by 2030  
0.48 that would be an enormous achievement you know 
i i&;ve spent much of my career tracking nasa and  
0.48 its human exploration programs and you know it&;s 
difficult for me to see a pathway for nasa to send  
0.48 two or four astronauts to mars in my lifetime like 
that&;s just about the extent of the achievements  
0.48 that we could expect from them you know in musk 
is talking about sending dozens of humans to mars  
0.48 at a time and doing it much much more quickly 
than nasa so he may say 2024 2026 i would say  
0.48 2030 would be moving heaven and earth to make that 
happen right yeah people talk about um elon time  
0.48 so he&;s always widely optimistic okay so let&;s 
dive in and explore some details of your book and  
0.48 how they succeeded when so many other companies 
failed so first musk assembled a stellar team  
0.48 and your book gives wonderful details about 
his interview technique and revealing details  
0.48 that i didn&;t know that he actually personally 
interviewed the first 3 000 employees at spacex  
0.48 which is remarkable can you describe a typical 
interview in the lengths that musk will go to  
0.48 to secure key members for his team yeah i&;ll i&;ll 
tell you a couple anecdotes to kind of flesh that  
0.48 out i think first of all one of the secrets of 
spacex spacex&;s success is the fact that that musk  
0.48 worked so hard to identify and then hire 
people he thought who could you know help them  
0.48 accomplish that goal so these are young people 
generally very smart very motivated and willing  
0.48 to go to the mat you know for musk and spacex 
um so one of the one of the stories i liked  
0.48 was told me by bilin alton who was a turkish an 
engineer from turkey who was in graduate school  
0.48 at stanford university and his wife worked for 
google and buelant didn&;t really like the idea  
0.48 of moving down to los angeles because he thought 
this bay area was nicer his wife already had a  
0.48 good job up there and he was still finishing up 
graduate school he had some friends at spacex and  
0.48 they invited him to come down and of course 
he ended up in an interview room with musk  
0.48 and musk had prepared he&;d heard from one of 
buelon&;s friends that you know that he had  
0.48 his wife&;s job up in the bay area and so forth and 
so during the interview musk just straightforward  
0.48 to belen says i heard your wife works at google 
and you can&;t move down here to la because of that  
0.48 so i called larry and he said you know she 
can work from los angeles if she wants to  
0.48 so he had he had just nonchalantly called larry 
page co-founder of google and said hey you know  
0.48 i want to hire this guy and there&;s a family issue 
can we work it out and buelon all time ends up at  
0.48 spacex and plays a pivotal role in the success of 
the falcon 1 the falcon 9 and the starlink program  
0.48 now he left and he left in 2015 on the company 
but it&;s super interesting guy and another one  
0.48 was told to me by an engineer named brian beldy 
who ended up as head of human resources for spacex  
0.48 but this was back in 2003 the summer of 2003 and 
belly comes in for an interview and and musk who  
0.48 is not one for small talk you know 
he does not like to waste time  
0.48 and so pretty much his first question of 
the gate to beldy was do you dye your hair  
0.48 um and he had noticed a disparity in the hair 
color between belly&;s eyebrows and his hair and  
0.48 apparently one just ceased upon him to ask 
that particular question but he has he&;s a  
0.48 unique interviewing style very direct wants to 
find out if people can think not what they know  
0.48 and and likes to throw people off kilter to 
see how they react when things don&;t go well  
0.48 um you can be pretty intimidating and he&;ll do 
things like you know why is your hair color that  
0.48 funny are your eyebrows or whatever just to 
see how people will react and that&;s part of  
0.48 the way he he sees how they&;re going to survive in 
this really you know demanding environment that he  
0.48 created at spacex great good to have friends in 
high places eh now another another theme of the  
0.48 early part of your book is how hard actually all 
the way through is how hard the team worked some  
0.48 people joke that spacex years are like dog years 
you get seven years in one and one example of that  
0.48 that you pulled out was schedules were prominently 
displayed above urinals in the bathroom can you  
0.48 give us other examples of just how hard you were 
expected to work and how you were driven yeah i  
0.48 mean it was the kind of thing in those first years 
where you were expected to you know when when it  
0.48 the schedule called for it to work all night 
and and not think anything of it um they just  
0.48 he hired generally people in their early 20s who 
were fresh out of college or just in grad school  
0.48 and you know they didn&;t have wives or spouses 
or husbands they didn&;t have that kind of family  
0.48 attachments you know they rented apartments they 
didn&;t live in homes and so their their whole life  
0.48 basically became you know working at spacex you 
know flo lee told me a story she was an engineer  
0.48 who hired in 2003 she worked on the structure 
of the falcon 1 rocket she was at stanford  
0.48 as well and decided to come down to spacex and 
she said she left all her friends in stanford  
0.48 you know even cried as she was driving from the 
bay area down to los angeles because she thought  
0.48 about sort of everything she was giving up 
to come work at this this unknown company  
0.48 and she told me that you know a few weeks after 
working at spacex she realized it didn&;t really  
0.48 matter that she didn&;t have any friends there 
because she had no time to spend with them  
0.48 and like her social world became the company 
and she just decided that for several years  
0.48 of her life it was okay to give literally 
everything she had that&;s all she wanted to do  
0.48 now i&;m not how health i&;m not sure how healthy 
that is certainly long-term for for people and as  
0.48 a working environment but it was the expectation 
that if you come work at spacex you&;re going to  
0.48 work really hard but you&;re also going to get 
a chance to accomplish super meaningful things  
0.48 yes and one one aspect of that you pulled out 
um spacex obviously pioneered reusable rockets  
0.48 reusable parts and um elon musk incentivized his 
team to bring things in-house so they weren&;t  
0.48 relying on outside um suppliers how do can you 
explain how he did this i understand over 80  
0.48 of spacex launch hardware is now built in house 
um is that is that figures too accurate and how  
0.48 did he incentivize team members to come up with 
efficient ways of doing things in-house and cost  
0.48 cutting so first of all you know i&;d like 
to step back and and you know help people  
0.48 understand what the aerospace industry 
was like in 2002 when he started spacex  
0.48 if you wanted to do it the way it had always been 
done and started a company you know you would come  
0.48 in and say okay we want to build a rocket such 
and such a size to lift this amount of payload to  
0.48 low earth orbit and then you would go out in the 
industry and find out okay aerojet makes the right  
0.48 size engine for this draper has the right software 
for this lockheed can build the right payload  
0.48 fairing for this boeing can build the tanks and 
you would go around and look at all the aerospace  
0.48 suppliers and figure out who had the best product 
and then you would pay them for that product  
0.48 and it ended up the your rocket ended up being 
extraordinarily expensive it would probably work  
0.48 but it cost 60 million or 100 million dollars to 
launch you know he wanted the falcon one to cost  
0.48 six million dollars per launch for a customer 
so this was really an order magnitude he was  
0.48 trying to drop the expense of getting into space 
and so one of the ways he incentivized it was  
0.48 you know early employees got a healthy chunk 
of stock and so if they save the company money  
0.48 um they saved their own money and you know that 
was that was not an unusual incentive i think  
0.48 in the bay area in silicon valley startups 
but it certainly was in the space industry
0.48 and so that was one of the ways 
that sort of he helped them become  
0.48 a vertically integrated company it 
just became part of the ethos you know  
0.48 the last thing he would want to hear from an 
employee is that&;s the way it always been done  
0.48 you know he would teach them and beat it 
into their heads that no there are probably  
0.48 better ways to do this we should find them and 
always look for the cheapest fastest solution  
0.48 um and that&;s that&;s ultimately what they did 
right and he also used carrots and sticks uh you  
0.48 write in a single meeting musk could be hilarious 
deadly serious hard reflective and a stickler for  
0.48 the finest details of rocket science but most of 
all he just wants to move things forward and get  
0.48 done um you also write about musk&;s anger can 
you share how he uses it to motivate himself  
0.48 and his team yeah so he can get very frustrated 
um when things don&;t go right right when when  
0.48 when rockets blow up he&;s not happy but what 
really gets under his skin is is things like  
0.48 trading a little bit of performance so what i mean 
by that is you know when you&;re building a rocket  
0.48 you have an engine that has a certain amount 
of thrust and it has a certain fuel efficiency  
0.48 and your rocket has a certain mass and the heavier 
your rocket is the less payload it can get to  
0.48 orbit the less payload it can get to orbit the 
less useful it is the fewer customers you can have  
0.48 the less money it can generate so you want a 
light rocket and you want a high performing engine  
0.48 and the trouble is when you get to the 
actual engineering of of building a rocket  
0.48 it you find yourself having to make trade-offs 
like you need a little bit more thickness  
0.48 in the tank walls because you&;re concerned about 
this problem or you need to take a little bit of  
0.48 performance from the engine so that you don&;t 
violate a pressure margin or you know you just  
0.48 sort of find yourself making these trade-offs and 
and he would just fight that so hard and would get  
0.48 would get angry um you know another example 
of this is is that you know it he he always  
0.48 wanted you know as we talked about to get things 
done and so they were trying to static fire test  
0.48 the falcon 1 rocket for the first time so this 
was a vandenberg air force base in california  
0.48 and they had the single they had the rocket 
with a single engine on the test stand  
0.48 and it&;s it&;s held down but you basically fire it 
before you launch it to make sure everything works  
0.48 um and you do that before you put a payload 
on it so that the payload is protected  
0.48 um and they were trying you know anytime 
you put new hardware on the stand there&;s  
0.48 always problems there&;s always these are complex 
systems and you&;ve got to find all the bugs  
0.48 and so they had tried to static fire 
tested three times on one day and then
0.48 they they ran out of liquid oxygen which is one 
of the two propellants used in the merlin engine  
0.48 and what had happened was their last fuel 
truck had got turned around in los angeles  
0.48 this was in may of 2005 and and didn&;t make it up 
to vandenberg and so they ran out of locks um and  
0.48 the in his phone call that night to the 
launch director a guy named tim buza  
0.48 must said if you know if you guys ever run out 
of locks again you probably should explain what  
0.48 locks are locks if you ever run out of liquid 
oxygen again so locks everyone&;s fired um and he  
0.48 would do that he would do that at other times too 
where basically said if this ever happens again  
0.48 you know everyone&;s fired um and would he 
have fired everyone i don&;t know but i mean he  
0.48 he he&;s he&;s unique in his motivation that he 
has these inspirational goals and he has his  
0.48 very effective at communicating them and 
motivating his team but there&;s also a certain  
0.48 amount of fear right because he is an intimidating 
and demanding person and if you screw up you know  
0.48 good luck to you the way um the way um 
a machinist put it to me um was you know  
0.48 you don&;t ever lie to elon right you don&;t steal 
from elon and if you tell eon you can do something  
0.48 you better get it done because otherwise you&;re 
in in in big trouble so i mean that&;s that was  
0.48 sort of the key things like like tell the truth 
and don&;t and and do what you say you&;re gonna  
0.48 do yes very hard taskmaster so now i&;d like 
to move on to some of the the drama stories  
0.48 the milestones and the team members in the early 
days spacex was forced to find its own launch pad  
0.48 for falcon 1 on a tiny pacific island and launch 
director you write and chinery said i had caught  
0.48 that spacex bug that said anything is possible it 
didn&;t occur to me what a challenge it would be  
0.48 eric can you tell us about that 
immense challenge and also the near  
0.48 mutiny that it caused right so if you can 
imagine you know they they were initially  
0.48 planning to launch from vandenberg air force 
base which is a couple hours north of los angeles  
0.48 and that&;s pretty simple right you put your 
rocket on the back of a flat bud bed truck  
0.48 you ship it up there and you put it vertical and 
you&;ve got everything you need there to make it  
0.48 go your launch team can go home at night or 
on the weekends and get rest and it&;s it&;s  
0.48 logistically it&;s pretty doable the problem is in 
2005 they ran into red tape there and it basically  
0.48 became clear that the us air force was not 
going to let them launch for at least six months  
0.48 and musk was not getting paid by anyone 
to build the rocket time was money and so  
0.48 he made the decision that they were going to have 
to find a launch site elsewhere they ended up at  
0.48 quadrillion atoll which is really far away so 
if you were to take off in an airplane from  
0.48 los angeles and fly to hawaii and then fly 
that same distance further west from hawaii  
0.48 then you end up in kwajalein it&;s about you 
know 4 000 miles from the mainland united states  
0.48 and imagine trying to launch a rocket from an 
island about the size of four city blocks with no  
0.48 consumables no power and anything it&;s literally 
just a tiny tropical island in this atoll in the  
0.48 pacific so they had to ship everything across the 
ocean or fly in army transports from los angeles  
0.48 to hawaii and then to kwajalein and they took a 
little boat from kwajalein over to omalek island  
0.48 where they launched from so we were talking 
about liquid oxygen or lox a few minutes ago  
0.48 you know it&;s one thing to truck it from you 
know a plant in in a chemical plant in in los  
0.48 angeles up to vandenberg it&;s another thing 
to ship it you know for it takes four weeks  
0.48 to go across the pacific to get to omalek island 
and so you can imagine the hot tropical sun liquid  
0.48 oxygen which is several hundred degrees below 
zero some of that&;s going to boil off so they  
0.48 they had to plan weeks and months ahead on all the 
consumables they had to bring everything out there  
0.48 that they were going to need and it was just it 
was a demanding environment because getting home  
0.48 was a flight from kwajalein to honolulu spending 
a night there and then flying to la so it was like  
0.48 a day a day and a half trip one way um and so 
the mutiny was was in the run-up to the first  
0.48 launch attempts they first launched the falcon 
one in march of 2006 so less than four years after  
0.48 spacex was founded pretty remarkable time 
he had pushed this team relentlessly hard  
0.48 um and you know they were they were working seven 
days a week you know every waking hour to get the  
0.48 falcon one rocket ready on omalek and they people 
people on the island were taking basically the way  
0.48 it worked is that there were engineers and 
technicians on omalek working on the rocket  
0.48 and then 20 miles away on kwajalein a little 
bit bigger island where the army base was  
0.48 there was another team of more senior engineers 
who were relaying instructions and then back in  
0.48 california typically is where musk was with other 
engineers and so they california the headquarters  
0.48 would relay instructions to quadrillion then 
kwajalein had headsets and they would talk to  
0.48 people on omalek and so the the workers on amalek 
just kind of got frustrated because it felt like  
0.48 they were just you know rolls downhill and it 
was all piling up on them um and and one day  
0.48 it&;s the the we talked about 
logistics were difficult just  
0.48 they ran out of food and more importantly for 
some of them they ran out of cigarettes and so  
0.48 after after they just gotten reamed about not 
using enough paperwork to document what they  
0.48 were doing um they just said look we&;re we&;re 
done we&;re not you know until we get some food  
0.48 and cigarettes out here we&;re not you know we&;re 
not going to work anymore and so this was a bit  
0.48 of a mutiny and so the launch director on 
quadrant at the time a guy named tim buzza  
0.48 decided that he was going to you know this was 
pretty serious and he&;d better address it so he  
0.48 he got with one of the uh the helicopter pilots 
who were former army guys who were flying vietnam  
0.48 era huey so it was the fastest way to get between 
islands and kwajalein and and they went out there  
0.48 with some trays of chicken wings and some packs 
of cigarettes and and the pilot when he got over  
0.48 to omelech wouldn&;t land and the excuse that 
he used was that there was they were building  
0.48 a launch tower it just wasn&;t safe for him to 
build launch tower but but really the landing  
0.48 area for the helicopter was 100 yards away so that 
was not really the real reason the way the real  
0.48 reason is it was explained to me by by some of the 
people who were on the island is that they it was  
0.48 like a scene from lord of the flies you know they 
were hungry they were dirty they were grind and  
0.48 sort of they saw the helicopter they all kind of 
rushed the pads the helicopter never even sat down  
0.48 it they just sort of pushed the food and 
cigarettes out and the pilot took off  
0.48 um but that that was then that was the end of the 
mutiny it only lasted a few hours but it gives  
0.48 a sense of like just how odd it is to be in this 
remote environment um and to just be pushed to the  
0.48 bleeding edge of sort of heat the human capacity 
yes and and uh how desperate they must have been  
0.48 risking the wrath of elon musk yeah it&;s a great 
story very well told in the book um so i don&;t  
0.48 think it&;s a spoiler to say there were three um 
unsuccessful launches of falcon one on that island  
0.48 and a lot of the team thought that&;s it we&;re done 
you know the money&;s running out but must give the  
0.48 team just six weeks to try one last time and you 
tell the story of how they transported that falcon  
0.48 one rocket across the pacific in a c-17 aircraft 
all went well until they started descending  
0.48 towards hawaii and heard loud terrible popping 
sounds can you pick up the story from there eric  
0.48 yeah so they had they had six weeks and typically 
they would ship it across the pacific on a barge  
0.48 but they didn&;t have time and so they arranged 
paid about half a million dollars to get a c17  
0.48 transport um loaded it up in la and we&;re flying 
it to hawaii for the first leg of the trip  
0.48 and as they went up the rocket you know was 
fine it was under pressure and then that&;s  
0.48 okay a rocket likes to have a higher internal 
pressure than the surrounding area the problem is  
0.48 when the c-17 started descending the rocket 
could not pressurize and so like the pressure  
0.48 inside the rocket was less than that of the 
the aircraft that it was that was riding in and  
0.48 that&;s terrible like a rocket is never supposed to 
have negative pressure and so to save money about  
0.48 20 of the spacex technicians and engineers had 
ridden along and so if you can imagine there&;s  
0.48 this first stage of a rocket laid out in this c-17 
hangar or transport payload area and then they&;re  
0.48 sort of sitting along the sides the aircraft 
their feet kicked up on the transportation cradle  
0.48 literally having the time of their life you know 
playing guitars and just you know how often you  
0.48 get to ride in a c-17 with a rocket probably never 
um but here they were doing it and and then all  
0.48 of a sudden the the falcon 1 as you say sort of 
starts popping and starts imploding like a like a  
0.48 beer can or giant is crushing a beer can and this 
this is their last hardware the company has no  
0.48 more money this they have no more pieces of falcon 
one rocket the previous three attempts have failed  
0.48 you know if they don&;t get this one into orbit 
and fast it&;s game over and everyone knows it  
0.48 okay so they&;re on the aircraft 
they&;re descending into hawaii  
0.48 and it&;s pandemonium in the in 
the hangar and the payload area  
0.48 and one of the one of the engineers goes back 
up in the cockpit and sort of begs the pilots to  
0.48 climb again um because they&;re trying to get the 
pressure lower inside the the aircraft so that um  
0.48 you know so that the rocket starts stops crumpling 
um and the pilot says okay we do we&;ve only got  
0.48 about 30 minutes of fuel so we can climb for about 
10 minutes then we&;ve got to continue our descent  
0.48 and and so that that helps but what they really 
need to do especially as the rocket keeps going  
0.48 down as the aircraft keeps going down into 
hawaii is open a big valve that will equalize  
0.48 the pressure between the fuel tanks and the the 
aircraft ambient pressure and it falls to zach  
0.48 dunn who&;s this young engineer who&;s responsible 
for the propulsion tank to do it and he&;s so he&;s  
0.48 got to climb into the inner stage which is the 
area between the first and second stages of the  
0.48 rocket and it&;s dark in there and there&;s these 
sharp components and it&;s just you know he&;s got  
0.48 if he doesn&;t open this the rocket is completely 
destroyed um but he could also be crushed as he&;s  
0.48 crawling in there it&;s it&;s dark it&;s loud it&;s 
pinging and he&;s got a single wrench to open  
0.48 this um that&;s the only tool they could find on 
the aircraft to open that valve and so you know  
0.48 he manages to crawl in there and and open the 
valve and he hears this loud whoosh as the as  
0.48 the air starts going back into the rocket and the 
pressures are equalizing and it&;s a it&;s he saved  
0.48 the rocket so to speak but no one knows like what 
kind of damage has been done because it&;s not just  
0.48 like a straight up fuel tank and it&;s just empty 
there&;s like delicate slosh baffles inside and  
0.48 so you know all of this intricate hardware that 
they spent months building you know is damaged  
0.48 if not destroyed and and yeah and they&;ve got to 
go to omalek and see what they can do about it  
0.48 yeah such a great story so dramatic so of course 
elon musk didn&;t do all this on his own i want to  
0.48 talk now about some of the key members of his 
team gwen shortwells now president of spacex  
0.48 and you describe her as simpatico with musk 
what would you say is her biggest contribution  
0.48 to the spacex mission so far right so elon founded 
spacex and he had funding and 100 million dollars  
0.48 and he had vision his vision was to ultimately 
build a rocket company capable of settling mars  
0.48 with humans um and he had some engineering 
know-how i mean he had read a lot of books  
0.48 on building rockets and talked to a lot of 
people and certainly had some good knowledge  
0.48 um what he didn&;t have was understanding of the 
aerospace business or of working with government  
0.48 customers you know he never had to deal with nasa 
bureaucracy like that let alone the air force  
0.48 or the national reconnaissance office and 
all of these play a key role in the success  
0.48 of launch companies because yeah you can 
launch some commercial satellites but  
0.48 the real money is in government business and 
launching science satellites for nasa and  
0.48 and communications and spy satellites for the 
us military and so she brought a knowledge of  
0.48 that industry and also a much more polished 
touch right musk is pretty abrasive at times  
0.48 kind of awkward and doesn&;t have a lot of time you 
know as we said for small talk whereas shotwell  
0.48 is much much smoother she&;s a former high school 
cheerleader um you know and and everyone in the  
0.48 space industry you know today loves her 
because she&;s very approachable very funny  
0.48 but you know outwardly they&;re very different 
but inwardly like she went to work for musk  
0.48 because she believed that the space industry was 
right for disruption as well and she saw in him  
0.48 you know sort of the agent of change who could 
make that happen and hired on and basically has  
0.48 given herself for the last 20 years to help him 
carry out that mission she&;s been instrumental  
0.48 in in working with the demilit the department of 
defense nasa and commercial customers and you know  
0.48 ultimately she scored the two big nasa contracts 
that ultimately saved spacex and put it on the  
0.48 trajectory it&;s been on for the last decade it&;s a 
remarkable achievement yes and i was delighted as  
0.48 a scot to hear about gwen&;s special lucky charm 
i understand she was in my hometown of glasgow  
0.48 when uh the first successful launch of falcon 
1 happened tell us about her her quirky habit  
0.48 that she developed after that exciting moment 
yes so she told me that that she was at a big  
0.48 space conference i see in it was just it happened 
to be in in scotland in glasgow scotland in 2008  
0.48 um and so on september 28 2008 she was staying in 
a hotel room literally halfway around the world  
0.48 from kwajalein as they were 
launching their fourth rocket  
0.48 um and so she was watching it and just you know 
was was thrilled about what had happened and and  
0.48 she&;s superstitious like a lot of people in the 
the space industry and so every launch since she&;s  
0.48 taken out a ballpoint pen and writing scott wrote 
scotland on a piece of paper and put in her shoes  
0.48 so she could say that she&;s over scotland or 
you know standing in scotland and they&;ve had  
0.48 a pretty remarkable record of success since 
those first three failures um so you know she  
0.48 she had she had a ball because she told me like 
the very next day she was scheduled to brief the  
0.48 customers that had been on the third flight of 
the falcon one that had failed um and just sort  
0.48 of had this sad meeting you know and she said 
screw it i&;m not gonna talk about the failure  
0.48 talk about the success we just had so yeah that&;s 
she&;s she&;s something else yes i just love that  
0.48 story it&;s great so another key part of the 
team was tom muller he was vp of propulsion  
0.48 and he designed the in-house rocket engines the 
merlin 1d the original raptor talk about his key  
0.48 contributions and how he and elon navigated this 
stressful and challenging terrain of three major  
0.48 failures early on yeah so tom muller had worked 
in the the space industry for about a decade um  
0.48 had come to los angeles from idaho and really had 
a brilliant mind for for building rocket engines  
0.48 and he told me he saw in musk because it was you 
know these for these early hires especially what  
0.48 must did was hire three or four people in their 
30s and 40s the mullers tim buzza gwen chartwell  
0.48 hans koenigsman and chris thompson to be the vice 
presidents and then below them had just a bunch of  
0.48 really young people out of college brilliant 
people um and so you know it was difficult to get  
0.48 these vice presidents to come on board you know 
musk had no reputation in the space industry  
0.48 um no reason to think he would be successful and 
these people all had you know well-paying jobs  
0.48 and made good careers and mueller said that you 
know he thought about he worked for trw at the  
0.48 time which was later bought by northrop grumman 
um he told me that he had seen a lot of people  
0.48 with good ideas but no money and a lot of people 
with no money but good ideas and musk was the  
0.48 first person he saw that really had a pretty good 
idea for starting out the falcon 1 rocket design  
0.48 and had the money the wherewithal to carry it 
out and so that&;s why he joined the company and  
0.48 and and they worked pretty well together up until 
the first failure so in march of 2006 um the  
0.48 rocket took off for 30 seconds and then crashed 
back into omalek island and this was because of a  
0.48 problem with the engine the the bolt on the merlin 
engine had been corroded because of salt spray um  
0.48 they&;d left it out on the island too long exposed 
in the tropical environment and uh and my mother  
0.48 said between flight one and flight two which was 
about a year he was you know he was on he was in  
0.48 deep with elon because his engine had screwed up 
and so he said their relationship was not good  
0.48 he told me this hilarious anecdote so like um 
after that first flight uh he must musk bought out  
0.48 a zero g flight um so this is a 737 727 that goes 
out flies parabolic arcs and and does about 20 of  
0.48 them so you end up getting about 20 seconds of 
weightlessness and about 20 seconds of about 1.8  
0.48 g&;s nasa has one too it&;s called the vomit comet 
i&;ve ridden on it it&;s a tremendous experience  
0.48 you never get a chance to do it no i 
didn&;t do they give you that&;s for you  
0.48 i&;ll give you an anti-medic that helps out a 
lot um so they they he he invite you know this  
0.48 is room for about 30 people and mueller is the 
vice president of propulsion right he&;s probably  
0.48 the most important engineer at the company outside 
of mosque and he&;s like there are a lot of people  
0.48 junior to me that got on the that got her ticket 
but i didn&;t get to go um and he&;s like he&;s like  
0.48 it really depended on the grade you got for the 
first launch and i obviously he got a bad grade um  
0.48 but then on the second flight of the falcon 
one which also didn&;t reach orbit but the  
0.48 first stage performed great like a champ the 
merlin engine so it&;s like tom said you know  
0.48 seconds after that first stage burn completed he 
and elon hugged it out and they were and they were  
0.48 good again um so you know working with musk is a 
challenge a way another engineer described to me  
0.48 tim buzza who was the vice president of launch 
you know you had to be willing to be molded  
0.48 by musk you had to be willing to sort 
of adapt to his demanding environment  
0.48 but in some ways that was liberating because you 
know you got to do things not by a committee like  
0.48 not like by having endless meetings so they&;d all 
work they all come from boeing um or trw or big  
0.48 companies that you know where things move slowly 
and you know here they got to move fast try ideas  
0.48 you know they got to fail and figure things out 
and move forward and for an engineer it&;s like  
0.48 being a kid in a candy store and so you had to be 
willing to take the good with the bad with musk  
0.48 and you know they were ultimately able to do 
it um now mueller and buzza and chris thompson  
0.48 all ended up leaving after about a decade or 
a little bit more at the company just because  
0.48 ultimately they got burned out in that but they 
all look back on it with tremendous fondness  
0.48 yes yes i can imagine yes um so i just wanted to 
let our audience know that we&;re at the 30 minute  
0.48 mark and we&;re going to be moving to audience 
questions in about 15 minutes so if you have  
0.48 any burning questions please leave them in the 
chat and just to continue with you know the drama  
0.48 uh high risk lawsuits were part of spacex&;s 
success can you talk eric about why they mattered  
0.48 and the controversy they created right so 
so musk acts on a pretty simple premise you  
0.48 know he&;s happy to kind of go along his own 
his own speed until things get in the way or  
0.48 if he thinks he&;s being treated unfairly and if 
he thinks he&;s being treated unfairly his reaction  
0.48 is to just fight back i mean you can see that 
on twitter anytime he&;s engaging with someone  
0.48 who says something he doesn&;t want like or 
thinks is unfair you know he did it recently  
0.48 with the faa and his starship test program and 
he did the same thing back at the beginning of  
0.48 spacex you know before they launched their first 
rocket he&;d sued all of his major competitors  
0.48 boeing lockheed and northrop protested a 
major nasa contract and and and sued the  
0.48 department of defense i mean these are his biggest 
competitors and most important customers and he  
0.48 he&;s never even launched soraka but he&;s you know 
he&;s taking them all on right out of the gate um  
0.48 so he&;s he&;s very aggressive in that sense yeah 
yes and are there any other dramatic stories that  
0.48 stand out for you are characters that we should we 
should um discuss um boy it&;s hard for me to pick  
0.48 them all because they&;re about a dozen in that 
i&;ve chose to focus on and i love them all you  
0.48 know tim buzza told me some of the best stories 
that that that made it in the book and as i said  
0.48 he was the launch director he&;d been at boeing and 
and led up their operations for engine testing and  
0.48 then launching your quadrillion and you just tell 
me one story that i just crack up every time i  
0.48 think about it so they in in the fall and winter 
of 2005 they were trying to set up their first  
0.48 their launch site in quadrillion and they were 
of course rushing to do it and you know they they  
0.48 tried to ship everything they could across during 
the 28 day voyage but it got to the point where  
0.48 you just needed things from the mainland more 
quickly and so the army had a designation and  
0.48 i&;m sorry i&;ve got on the book it&;s like 999 or 
something like that but basically you know when  
0.48 you&;re asking for something to be shipped on an 
army transport you have to designate it with a  
0.48 priority code and there&;s a certain low priority 
there&;s a sort of a general priority for for  
0.48 family packages and things like that and then 
there&;s a high priority like like i said it&;s  
0.48 nine or something and and this is basically 
reserved for critical war material like you  
0.48 know you&;re you&;re on the front lines or your 
hospital and you you got to have this stuff  
0.48 and he said they kind of cozied up to the the 
army logistics agent in kwajalein and just  
0.48 started using 999 on everything they needed that 
fall and they were they were they were building  
0.48 up to their first launch attempt on december 
23rd just a couple days before christmas and so  
0.48 he said that last logistics flight before 
christmas just a couple of days before  
0.48 christmas was just all spacex stuff and he said 
so i basically bumped all of the christmas trees  
0.48 the christmas presents the christmas hams 
for the for the for the army families that  
0.48 were on the coachlean army base and he said 
for months after that the army moms and like  
0.48 the local px and stones in the face would just 
give them the dirtiest looks because they knew  
0.48 they knew what spacex had done to them for the 
christmas of 2005. so it&;s just you know it was  
0.48 it was sort of talking to people like him 
who were willing to just tell all the good  
0.48 stories and and being able to put that down in 
a book that was just made it such a fun project  
0.48 to work on yes it just shows how many people 
have been impacted way beyond the spacex team  
0.48 oh yeah offered and sacrificed yes and we didn&;t 
even get into divorces and family disruption  
0.48 anyway i&;d now like to focus on spacex and elon 
musk&;s lessons for entrepreneurs as a leader musk  
0.48 cultivated and anything is possible mindset and 
a recurring question from musk was what would it  
0.48 take can you give us some examples of this 
mindset yeah so you know kind of returning to  
0.48 the issue of liquid oxygen we talked about you 
know they kept having problems of supplying it  
0.48 in quadraline and so the engineers discovered 
that there was this machine that could take  
0.48 warm tropical air kind of ingest it and pull the 
oxygen out of it and liquefy it and well this  
0.48 seemed like a great idea because you could have 
a magical machine um and make locks 24 7 and so  
0.48 you know it sight unseen elon says sure 
let&;s order it let&;s see if it works  
0.48 and so they got it they shipped it out there and 
it was basically filled up half of the c van and  
0.48 it was this you know this contraption that&;s kind 
of this machine with these pipes and smoke coming  
0.48 out of it and made all these popping noises and it 
ended up making you know a few dozen gallons a day  
0.48 but nothing nothing like they needed but 
you know he was you know he was willing to  
0.48 you know cognizant of the fact that he was asking 
the nearly impossible he was willing to entertain  
0.48 you know whatever solutions it would 
take to to do it and like i said earlier  
0.48 you know what he didn&;t want to hear is this is 
the way it&;s always been done in the industry  
0.48 and so this is the way we ought to do it no no he 
wanted you to think well how could we do it better  
0.48 how could we do it faster and if if it was a crazy 
solution he would entertain that solution um which  
0.48 you know again speaks of this duality 
of like asking the impossible but then  
0.48 empowering his people to have a chance of doing 
the impossible yes yes very effective obviously so  
0.48 he musk would urge his team to use this iterative 
rather than a linear approach and almost a mantra  
0.48 of move fast build things and break things why 
did this fail fast uh strategy eventually succeed  
0.48 and was that would you say that&;s the key to 
kind of beating the establishment yeah i mean  
0.48 along with the vertical integration that we talked 
about earlier of trying to break your dependence  
0.48 upon the aerospace aerospace supply chain you 
know he had a different way of going about it  
0.48 traditionally in in space you know if nasa 
has a contractor build a system or rocket  
0.48 you know they don&;t want it to fail they 
don&;t want they want tests to be perfect  
0.48 and okay that means that it&;s going to take 
a long time to design because you&;ve got a  
0.48 you&;ve got to simulate every possible 
scenario in which the rocket could fail  
0.48 and then build a component or a widget to address 
that issue so that by the time you get to your  
0.48 first test years and years and years after coming 
up with the idea the rocket works now it may be  
0.48 heavy it may be years late it may be millions 
or billions of dollars over budget but  
0.48 it hasn&;t failed um and and musk&;s thought was 
well you know if we can get away with with steel  
0.48 walls on the tank that are only three millimeters 
instead of six millimeters we saved a ton of mass  
0.48 and you could simulate that to death but the 
acid test is to just build it and test it or  
0.48 fly it and see what happens and it may blow up and 
you know he famously you know told his employees  
0.48 more than a decade ago you know failure is an 
option at spacex like we can be seen to fail  
0.48 and that&;s okay because it&;s going to get us 
to our goal faster and it did it did bite him  
0.48 in the butt sometimes on that second launch 
of the falcon 1 it was taking a risk on on  
0.48 upper stage an upper stage issue um that that they 
decided they had the margin to fly with then never  
0.48 had really been able to completely simulate it and 
they went ahead anyway and that that ultimately  
0.48 caused the launch to fail but he was willing to 
take that risk to get a rocket develop faster  
0.48 and you know they went from nothing to having a 
rocket on the launch pad in three and a half years  
0.48 and reached orbit a couple years later and 
that that was a speed for a new rocket that  
0.48 you know is really unprecedented and it 
was because he had this this fly test fail  
0.48 learn fix and then fly again mentality yeah 
it really is remarkable and the other aspect  
0.48 which is interesting for entrepreneurs is elon 
was simultaneously or still is running spacex  
0.48 and tesla through some very challenging times 
around 2008 how did he apply lessons from each um  
0.48 strategies you know and adopt new strategies 
for each company from the learning i mean  
0.48 it is insane to think that you know he not only 
founded one transformative company he founded two  
0.48 and and not only guided them from like the 
founders mentality right spacex was gonna settle  
0.48 mars tesla was gonna make electric cars cool um 
and sort of from the from the ground up built  
0.48 these companies but then now through the maturing 
process he&;s remained like as the leader of both  
0.48 of those companies i mean it&;s almost always 
you go through this you go through the situation  
0.48 of where you know your founder has a vision and 
then someone comes in and has to be like the adult  
0.48 in the room the ceo and no that&;s not been the 
case from for musk it&;s worked out um in terms  
0.48 of a lesson learned it&;s interesting and i would i 
would use an example of starship um he&;s got this  
0.48 factory beneath tents in south texas where they&;re 
building the mars vehicle um for starship and  
0.48 he described it when i visited him last year 
to talk about this he described it as building  
0.48 the machine to build the machine and this is a 
lesson he learned two years earlier when he&;d  
0.48 gone through a production hell with tesla um 
and and it was interesting to see him apply the  
0.48 similar logic to optimizing each stage of 
production of a tesla to similarly optimizing  
0.48 each stage of building starship and so he&;s 
got this revolutionary rocket like the space  
0.48 industry&;s never seen anything like this before 
and you&;d think he&;d be entirely focused on the  
0.48 design of starship but no at that point he 
was designed focused on building the machine  
0.48 to build the machine like how do you optimize a 
factory to build starships and so uh he definitely  
0.48 took lessons learned from spacex and put him to 
tesla and similarly from tesla to spacex it&;s  
0.48 how he can keep it straight in his 
head you know is is pretty boggling  
0.48 yes i it really is it&;s quite mind-boggling 
okay so we have some questions from the  
0.48 audience uh what do you think are elon musk&;s 
three biggest attributes and three biggest  
0.48 weaknesses so his three biggest strengths are 
one i would say he is extremely intelligent um  
0.48 i&;ve had the the pleasure to interview stephen 
hawking on several occasions so i&;ve interviewed  
0.48 smart people and musk is every bit as much 
in that stratosphere so he has is very strong  
0.48 um he&;s thinking on a different plane certainly 
than than than someone like myself who&;s you  
0.48 know not stupid but not brilliant um 
and he he&;s he works extremely hard  
0.48 um you know he&;s he&;s putting in literally 16 
to 20 hour days um to manage spacex tesla and  
0.48 his other interests and you know creating memes as 
well i suppose during that time and then and then  
0.48 thirdly i think most importantly he just has this 
incredible drive that he wakes up every day trying  
0.48 to think about how he can go faster or do things 
more quickly or change the way i mean it&;s just  
0.48 he has this energy where he drives himself 
and those people around him to move faster  
0.48 and it&;s incredible to be around but it&;s also 
i found it extraordinarily draining trying to  
0.48 keep up with that because it never really turns 
off and i think it&;s that drive that probably is  
0.48 most important his most important attribute in 
terms of just being able to move through all of  
0.48 the inertia in this world to get spacex and tesla 
to the point where they are and sort of to not be  
0.48 happy with where they are and continue pushing you 
know to where tesla becomes bigger and bigger to  
0.48 where spacex actually achieves its ambitions 
what are his weaknesses um i mean you know  
0.48 he can be not nice to his people right um 
if you work for spacex and all of a sudden  
0.48 you&;re less useful than you were then you know 
he&;s he&;s ready to move on like like it was it  
0.48 was nice while it lasted but it&;s over um and 
so i don&;t want to say he doesn&;t have empathy  
0.48 because he does have empathy but he doesn&;t 
always display that display empathy i would say  
0.48 um you know his his habits on twitter are 
self-destructive um i know why he uses it  
0.48 it&;s because he enjoys it um it&;s an outlet for 
him and it&;s an incredibly effective marketing for  
0.48 both spacex and tesla and in the space community 
you know he he he communicates great details  
0.48 about the starship development program that 
we can&;t get anywhere else that is literally  
0.48 like an inside view of what&;s happening but he&;s 
also you know he also says mean things to people  
0.48 nasty things to people it&;s gotten him in 
trouble seems to me like he&;s doing less of  
0.48 that now um but but that&;s not that that behavior 
is obviously not helpful um i see a third thing  
0.48 um i mean he you know he he&;s he&;s not politically 
correct and i mean and that&;s just that&;s just  
0.48 that&;s just the way he is and i think that that&;s 
how he moves fast and gets things done is by not  
0.48 worrying about that kind of stuff but i think that 
in in some people&;s minds that hurts them as well  
0.48 got it okay we have another audience uh question 
and they want to know about reactions to your  
0.48 book so far um are people happy with 
how events and stories were portrayed  
0.48 yeah so like um go check out the amazon 
reviews of liftoff they&;re shockingly nice  
0.48 um i mean i when i finished the book i was very 
happy with how the story turned out because  
0.48 i felt like i had talked to everyone i wanted 
to talk to i felt like just the narrative the  
0.48 story the falcon one was more rich than i had 
even imagined and i felt like i was able to  
0.48 tell like a really nice arc um that explained 
where spacex had come from and how you know  
0.48 sort of setting the stage for why they had become 
such a successful transformative rocket company  
0.48 but it&;s really nice to see people react to that 
um i&;m not sure elon is a huge fan of the book  
0.48 because the approach i took was was it&;s obviously 
his company and he&;s the spine of the book but  
0.48 it&;s very much the story of spacex and not elon 
musk&;s spacex so it it it brings forth a lot of  
0.48 characters who worked at the company during the 
early years and so elon had the vision and he was  
0.48 there working alongside them but there were other 
people who did a lot of hard work and blood sweat  
0.48 and tears to make that rocket happen so i told the 
story of the falcon 1 through their eyes as well  
0.48 so it&;s it&;s it&;s it&;s people who are still 
at spacex as people who left spacex some on  
0.48 great terms some on not so great terms so 
it&;s like it&;s like a holistic story and and  
0.48 by and large all the early vice presidents have 
given me great feedback gwen um hans koenigsman  
0.48 tom mueller chris thompson timbuzza they&;re all 
thrilled with the book and they were all eager to  
0.48 tell the story um and so they all talked frankly 
in a way that they really had never done before  
0.48 great well you can&;t please all the people okay 
so another audience question when you first met  
0.48 elon musk what was your first impression of him 
did anything surprise you and i would add to that  
0.48 um in your book you described you had a kind 
of intimate family time with him and his three  
0.48 boys can you talk about that too yeah so i 
would just say i had a you know he threw me  
0.48 a little off-kilter the first time i met him it 
was the day before the falcon heavy launch in 2018  
0.48 and had arranged it so that i was going to 
interview him about him half a mile from the  
0.48 rocket with it in the background and he 
kind of rolls up in this this black suv  
0.48 and gets out and and now we&;re looking at the 
world&;s largest rocket never had launched before  
0.48 and the very first thing he says 
to me after we sort of say hello is  
0.48 it looks a little small doesn&;t it and 
i had no idea how to take that because  
0.48 no it didn&;t look small at all it was the huge 
rocket right um and i was trying to think like  
0.48 on my feet is he like being self-deprecating 
um kind of making a joke or is he being serious  
0.48 and later i realized well he was being serious 
um because even back then like his mind was kind  
0.48 of had already turned his focus towards starship 
and starship does dwarf the falcon heavy rocket so  
0.48 so he&;s saying it looks a little small he was 
thinking about it with starship anyway that  
0.48 threw me that threw me very much off my stride 
for a few seconds as i struggled with that um  
0.48 i did spend a little bit of time around him and 
his three sons um more than half a day in in 2019  
0.48 and it was really it was really nice to see him um 
because he was bringing the three boys with him to  
0.48 south texas for the weekend and they brought 
their dog um a little havanese named marvin  
0.48 the martian and so i got to see elon 
the dad elon the dog parent and he was  
0.48 like a dad i mean he acted like a dad it 
was like it was you know he has this very  
0.48 much of a tony stark larger than life persona 
international billionaire you know but in that  
0.48 setting he was just sort of their dad and it 
was it was nice to sort of see that side of him  
0.48 yes that&;s wonderful you experience that and 
we have a question from catherine at leopard  
0.48 imaging and she says eric you recently 
published an article about russia turning  
0.48 away from nasa and working with china what 
other geopolitical changes do you anticipate  
0.48 um so the space industry is changing 
you know it started out as a cold war  
0.48 where it was a geopolitical struggle between 
the united states and the soviet union to show  
0.48 who could do better things in space for the last 
two or three decades it&;s been more of cooperation  
0.48 between the united states and russia primarily 
through the international space station but  
0.48 we&;re entering now there&;s a lot of talk about a 
multi-polar world i think it&;s the same thing in  
0.48 space you&;re going to have a strength of china 
who&;s very much emerging as a power in space  
0.48 both economic and military and exploration and 
then russia i see them sort of gravitating from  
0.48 working with the united states and and they&;re 
really fading as a power they&;re not investing  
0.48 in their space program they have a tremendous 
legacy but i see them sort of going along with  
0.48 china rather than going along with the united 
states and then you&;ve got nasa which is in  
0.48 this difficult position because on the one 
hand they&;re sort of leading the free world  
0.48 in exploration but their plans have changed 
from the moon to mars the moon again  
0.48 it now seems like we&;ve got a pretty good plan 
with the artemis program and there will be sort  
0.48 of we&;ll be able to lead you know back to the 
the moon with japan europe china and some other  
0.48 countries like perhaps brazil or the middle east 
but then there&;s this this this fourth power  
0.48 and that&;s really the commercial space sector 
um because because spacex and other companies  
0.48 falling behind have have taken that first 
critical step toward lowering the cost of launch  
0.48 and so you can get into space for much lower cost 
now than you could 10 years ago you can do so in a  
0.48 much more timely fashion you don&;t have to wait 
two or three years if you have an idea you can  
0.48 maybe get there in six months and from a business 
standpoint that really means you can try more  
0.48 things so i think you know in addition to china 
and the united states sort of these these major  
0.48 international programs the commercial space 
is definitely going to become a player and  
0.48 we&;re going to see a lot more activity and we&;re 
already seeing that with the starlink internet  
0.48 program that spacex is doing this this low-earth 
orbit constellation of thousands of satellites to  
0.48 deliver broadband internet around the world you 
know one web is doing that jeff bezos is doing  
0.48 that with project kuiper um and tell us that&;s 
planning something china&;s planning it but but  
0.48 you know we&;re seeing clashes between spacex and 
astronomers right it&;s it&;s polluting the night  
0.48 sky you&;re seeing clashes between spacex and nasa 
and and and the u.n because of this potential for  
0.48 increased um collisions between satellites i saw 
a study recently where up to half of the potential  
0.48 collisions in low earth orbit now are due to space 
exercise because they put so many up there and  
0.48 it&;s just going to increase and so you know we&;re 
not going to just have this tension between china  
0.48 or rush or the united states in space but you&;re 
going to have tension between commercial actors  
0.48 and and those geopolitical actors and i don&;t know 
how it&;s all going to shake out but we&;ve come a  
0.48 long way since the cold war and the us and soviet 
union it&;s going to give you lots of material to  
0.48 write it right eric that&;s for sure it&;s a super 
fascinating time to be thinking about this stuff  
0.48 for you so uh with time for just one last 
question elon once told me i want to die on mars  
0.48 just not on impact in history humorous way and 
knowing what you know um of elon how he works  
0.48 and how he drives his team will he achieve his 
dream and what milestones do you expect to see  
0.48 from spacex and its starship and starlink 
projects in the next five to ten years yeah so  
0.48 i mean when he founded spacex 
and started talking about how  
0.48 you know he was going to settle mars and that 
was like the purpose of the company it was  
0.48 that was just insane in the context of the 
era i remember in 2016 he did his first real  
0.48 presentation on his mars ambitions he was at the 
iac meeting in guadalajara mexico and even that  
0.48 was that was a little less than five years ago 
and even then it seemed beyond audacious to me  
0.48 um but to see what they&;ve done since then with 
the falcon 9 falcon heavy now the starship rocket  
0.48 leads me to believe that it might just be 
possible so he&;s you know almost 50 years old  
0.48 he&;s moving as fast as he can how long he&;ll be 
able to keep up this pace i i don&;t know i mean  
0.48 if the pressures of 2008 didn&;t break him 
when tesla and spacex were both on the brink  
0.48 of failure and he was getting a divorce and you 
know if he could manage that and come through it  
0.48 you know i think he you know who knows how long 
he can keep going but but but the reason he moves  
0.48 so fast and like it has this drive i think is 
because he knows he has a finite amount of time to  
0.48 make this happen in his lifetime um so i&;m gonna 
bet that that he does make it i don&;t know if he  
0.48 ever goes to mars but i think spacex will launch 
humans to mars in his lifetime and we may even  
0.48 see the foundations of a settlement um i think 
people will die on impact with mars it&;s just  
0.48 an extremely dangerous thing and then the people 
going there will have to accept some kind of risk  
0.48 that nasa would never accept that risk but 
potentially a private company could get away with  
0.48 i don&;t know there&;s lots of thorny issues like 
that that they&;re going to have to work through  
0.48 in the coming years in terms of achievements 
within five to ten years i think starlink  
0.48 will be a a big commercial success i mean 
i think by next year you&;ll be able to get  
0.48 your internet from starlink if you want um 
and and i think that&;ll be really popular  
0.48 among space cadets because there&;s a lot of people 
out there who love what spacex is doing but have  
0.48 no way to directly support the company well 
with starlink you can ditch comcast and pay  
0.48 the same or maybe a little bit more and 
get internet and why wouldn&;t you do that  
0.48 if you could fly the spacex logo on the 
side of your house or apartment or whatever  
0.48 and i think starship they&;ll reach orbital flight 
i think they may even fly humans around the moon  
0.48 within five to seven years and i think if nasa 
goes back to the moon it&;ll be on spacex rockets  
0.48 i mean it&;s just you know nasa has spent 10 
years and more than 20 billion dollars building  
0.48 a rocket that is is totally obsolete compared to 
starship and so i think ultimately that rocket  
0.48 the space launch system will get scrapped and 
spacex will build a transportation system but  
0.48 if they&;re really going to go where they want 
to go they&;re going to have to do with nasa  
0.48 um for regulatory reasons for technology reasons 
like learning to live in space for long periods of  
0.48 times the whole psychology of that i mean a long 
duration space trial it&;s pretty serious stuff  
0.48 and and nasa has a lot of experience in 
that so i think you know they&;ve been  
0.48 great partners for the last 12 to 14 years 
and i just think that&;s going to continue  
0.48 excellent great insights eric and will there be 
a sequel from you we&;ll have to see you know i&;m  
0.48 enjoying i&;m enjoying having liftoff out there 
and sharing it with the world and we&;ll see if  
0.48 there&;s another chapter be written about spacex 
or something else yes well we&;ll be we&;ll be  
0.48 falling closely i think you&;ve done a remarkable 
job telling this very intimate story of the the  
0.48 scrappy first years i&;d like to thank you eric for 
all your insights and all your wonderful stories  
0.48 um eric is the author of liftoff elon musk and 
the desperate early days that launch spacex we  
0.48 encourage you to pick up a copy of eric&;s new book 
at your local bookstore and if you&;d like to watch  
0.48 more virtual programs or support the commonwealth 
club please visit commonwealthclub.org i&;m alison  
0.48 van diegelen thank you so much for joining us 
stay well and hope to see you next time thank you
0.48 you
.

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